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tapir-models.ro • View topic - Primer Vallejo - cum se foloseste?

Primer Vallejo - cum se foloseste?

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Re: Primer Vallejo - cum se foloseste?

Postby alexelu_marinelu » Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:23 pm

Din propria experienta, eu zic ca adevarul probabil e undeva la mijloc.
Daca vrei sa-l dai pentru evidentierea detaliilor, atunci merge orice vopsea data din aerograf. Data din pensula, nu.
Daca vrei sa si corectezi, atunci indicat e grundul - pericolul e mai mare ca o vopsea sa se cojeasca, decat un grund. .
Si asa ajungem la aderenta - din tot ce am experimentat eu, grundul e mai aderent si mai consistent (adica un strat de grund acopera mai bine decat un strat de vopsea). Din ce stiu eu, asta e din cauza ca solventul din grund e ceva gen nitro (care prinde mai bine pe orice, pentru ca ataca putin suprafata de vopsit).
Evident ca vopseaua data prin aerograf acopera orice: si plastic, si metal, si rasina. La pensula e mare diferenta. Depinde mult si de tipul, marca, dilutia vopselei. Daca dai peste grund, situatia se amelioreaza.
Metalul e ceva mai pretentios - sunt cazuri destul de frecvente, cand aliajul imbatraneste si" corodeaza". Astia mai laureati ii zic ceva gen "imbolnavirea metalului". Vopseaua se maroneste, mucegaieste si se exfoliaza pe anumite zone. De principiu, grundul special pentru metal impiedica acest lucru. Din ce-mi aduc aminte era vorba de figurine mai vechi, in aliajul carora apare un procent mai mare de plumb.
Bref, nu e chiar chifla asta cu grundul, dar nici nu e un "must" in toate situatiile.
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Re: Primer Vallejo - cum se foloseste?

Postby Tibi Keresztely » Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:24 pm

Din experienta mea tin sa va spun ca grunduirea pieselor de metal, rasina sau plastic care a fost chituit, necesita grunduire. Grunduirea nu este numai pentru aderenta mai buna a vopselelor, grundul ajuta foarte des si la depistarea defectelor si remedierea acestora.Eu folosesc doua tipuri, Tamiya Surface Primer (cel gri) care-l aplic numai in cazul in care am avut mult de chituit iar dupa ce am trecut de faza aceasta folosesc Tamiya Fine Surface Primer ( cel alb in doza mare). Acum, aplicarea eu o fac tot prin aerograf, extrag o cantitate care consider ca imi va ajunge pentru etapa de vopsire si o diluez cu dilunat Mr. Color Thinner Gunze. Aplicate ca si orice vopsea prin aerograf NU ineaca si nu se pierde nici un detaliu.

@ Buss, grundul folosit de tine trebuie cu sa-l diluezi fara discutie mai mult. Presupun ca ai incercat vopsirea si in perioada in care a fost atit de cald iar acest lucru merge greu cu vopsele/grunduri care se usuca repede. Poate nici aerograful tau nu a fost 100% curat...

@ Marhaba, nu cunosc vopselele Vallejo prea bine, dupa o scurta aventura cu ele am renuntat. In schimb vopselele acrilice Revell sunt si bune si rele, depinde de culoare. Unele nu adera la pensula nici sa te impusti. Au tendinta sa se traga, indiferent ca suprafata este data cu grund sau direct pe plastic. Nici la Aerograf nu sunt prea bune dar mai recent am observat ca se pot aplica ceva mai usor diluate cu diluant Tamiya X 20 A.
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Re: Primer Vallejo - cum se foloseste?

Postby Marhaba » Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:24 pm

Din cele spuse de Alex si Tibi, am retinut (printre altele) urmatoarele:
- "grundul special pentru metal impiedica acest lucru." Sa inteleg ca e un fel de grund pt metale si altfel pt plasticuri. Pentru ca e foarte posibil sa m-apuc de o figurina din metal, Alex te rog recomanda-mi un grund pt metale. Daca e posibil din inventarul Olafian.
- Tibi vopselele Valejo sunt bune la pensula (atit cit am incercat la vopsirea unor figurine - nu prea multe) si medii spre nasoale in aerograf (inclusiv Valejo-air cu retard cu tot, care se presupune ca ar fi facute special pentru aerografie). Nu se compara in aerograf cu cele Tamiya pe care le folosesc curent.
- ciudata diferenta pe care ai remarcat-o intre culorile Revell acrilice. De asemenea interesant ca merg diluate cu Tamiya x20A, desi NU merg diluate cu alcool izopropilic (care dilueaza altfel vopselele Tamiya)

Ok, m-am lamurit , adevarul e "dincolo de noi", adica vorba lui Alex, pe la mijloc. Sigur, peste vreo 15 ani cind o sa se cojeasca vopseaua de pe machete, voi reveni cu o postare despre grund.
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Re: Primer Vallejo - cum se foloseste?

Postby Tibi Keresztely » Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:25 pm

De regula, grundul industrial pentru metale nu este recomandat pentru aplicare pe plastic datorita solventului. In cazul nostru, mai ales pe stiren nu este indicat sa folosesti un grund pentru metale (auto) pentru ca risti sa incretesti plasticul, dar pentru metale este ideal.
Cam toate grundurile de modelism merg si pe metal si pe plastic. Tamiya si Gunze ofera un grund dedicat pentru metal, scump dar bun. Este transparent ca un lac. Vorbeste cu xaba, el avea Mr. Metal Primer GS-B504.
Alta alternativa sunt grund auto la Spray Duplicolor. Citind un articol al lui wurger, am retinut tipul de grund pe care al foloseste el la figurine. Mi-am cumparat si eu o doza de spray si am fost foarte impresionat de calitatea produsului.
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Re: Primer Vallejo - cum se foloseste?

Postby Marhaba » Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:25 pm

Multam pt informatii.
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Re: Primer Vallejo - cum se foloseste?

Postby alexelu_marinelu » Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:26 pm

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Re: Primer Vallejo - cum se foloseste?

Postby Marhaba » Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:26 pm

Multam coane de esplicatii.
Ma gindesc (razlet deocamdata) sa incerc o prima figurina metalica in capitolul SIP, având în vedere ca B-25-ul nu-l voi putea termina în timp util (mai ales că încă nici nu l-am început). Deocamdată m-am oprit la vreo 10(?) pretorieni și alți cavaleri din cei de categoria 15-20 euroi de la Andrea (exemplu in poza de mai jos). Nu am neaparat preferinte de epoca. As fi preferat ceva mai mare pentru inceput, un 70mm ar fi fost la fix sau chiar un 90. Din pacate nu sunt pregatit ”psihic” să dau 50 de euro pe-o figurină. Daca-ti vine vreo idee da-mi de stire.
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Re: Primer Vallejo - cum se foloseste?

Postby alexelu_marinelu » Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:27 pm

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Re: Primer Vallejo - cum se foloseste?

Postby Marhaba » Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:27 pm

Am sa incerc sa tin cont, multam pt sfaturile utile.
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Re: Primer Vallejo - cum se foloseste?

Postby Purice Valentin » Thu Apr 11, 2013 10:28 pm

Ovidiu , daca faci comanda de figurine din metal spune-mi si mie ca ma bag si eu !
multumesc!
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